00:00:12 In Hungary,
it is a fundamental condition of
democracy that there should always
00:00:19 be a presidential opposition.
So let's create an opposition that is
government-minded. I agree that there
00:00:27 is no real political democracy
where a mass party is formed,
00:00:32 and then the other party
never stands a chance.
00:00:38 There is a chance that opposition
parties will be needed.
00:00:43 I have always considered the year 1875,
00:00:51 when Kálmán Tisza united
the two parties a tragic one
00:00:57 because in Hungary there were
conditions for bipolar politics
00:01:04 and it was then that the great mass party
and the government had no chance of a real opposition,
00:01:10 which necessarily led them in an unproductive
and aimless direction.
The Horthy Era also
00:01:17 had a major political flaw
in the so-called united party,
00:01:23 which also produced aforementioned small partiest
that had no chance of forming government.
00:01:28 So we agree on this, I believe,
that it is very important
00:01:34 that the conditions for an alternating political regime,
in the political life of Parliament,
00:01:40 really develop.
One of the conditions for the
00:01:47 emergence of a true democracy is the rule
of a parliamentary democracy,
00:01:56 the rule of law in the whole state apparatus
and this must be linked to
00:02:04 a very good municipal system.
So democracy can only be imagined
00:02:12 as a true democracy if the local governments
really live alongside central government,
00:02:17 and therefore it will be incredibly
important that the number of
00:02:24 elected people in the whole administrative
apparatus in Hungary really be replaced,
00:02:32 all the civil servants,
so that people can feel once again
00:02:39 that they elect people whom they can trust.
I agree that the press is
00:02:46 not one of the elements of democracy
in the sense Montesquieu understood it,
00:02:52 but it is a power factor.
Additionally, there is a fundamental truth
00:02:58 that political democracy can function
only where parliamentary democracy
00:03:03 can be built on a wealthy
middle class in a broad sense
00:03:09 and that is why it is necessary to strive
00:03:16 - not in the old sense of state officials -
but a very wide medium layer
00:03:22 of peasantry and skilled workers
that we see in every functioning democracy.
00:03:27 A well-functioning democracy can only
be built on such a base,
00:03:34 because where there is desperate poverty in
its masses democracy cannot really be built.
00:04:00 Today, at half the way,
we are in a serious, difficult situation.
00:04:08 The country is in a serious,
difficult situation and this means
00:04:15 that we have to think through this path,
00:04:20 what we have done, we have to say it clearly,
00:04:26 and we do need to repeat
again and again what heritage
00:04:30 we have taken over. What is happening now
is that some are going to be upset
00:04:36 if we mention our inheritance and
if we talk about the members of the previous state party,
00:04:41 painting themselves now as social democrats,
drawing themselves to the international network
of social democrats.
00:04:48 If they want to enter
the political race, I think
00:04:53 they will have the sense to think for a longer time
there and they won't rush away.
00:05:01 But we see representatives of these parties
in mid-term elections.
00:05:09 It's like they never had anything to do with it,
like snake skins - they just take off their past.
00:05:17 Central Committee secretaries become the best reformers
and then reformers become the best liberals,
00:05:22 if you like, and national democrats
that you want and they know everything better
00:05:28 because they're experienced, professionals
00:05:34 but they've bankrupted the country!
We're not talking about it anymore.
00:05:41 It's not about some cheap propaganda,
it's about analysing the state
00:05:46 in which we've taken over the
country and just because the country
00:05:51 was having a heart attack, it still crossed the finish line
00:05:57 they were jus taking her away on a stretcher right away.
00:06:13 Please (the old guards) don't act as if
you've given power over elegantly, stemming from
00:06:20 some wonderful judgment of the situation.
We were very correct when we took over the government.
00:06:35 In these two years, we have accomplished
00:06:41 many things that are not popular.
00:06:47 Did we ever say in the Hungarian Democratic Forum
that popular tasks would follow?
00:06:56 Why, for the sake of the country,
00:07:02 we are willing to sacrifice our
own political party. I hope
00:07:08 that this will not be necessary,
but when we put it this way
00:07:14 we have just said that we will not sacrifice
the country for party interests,
00:07:18 if necessary, rather vice versa. Therefore,
00:07:23 we have chosen the only possible path,
which means transformation.
00:07:33 We've said it many times,
but it may not hurt
00:07:40 to have a difficult inheritance.
We do not doubt that after
00:07:47 the retortion period in Hungary after 1963,
the conditions continued to improve
00:07:54 and that there were reform experiments in 1968.
00:08:00 Consequently, the political and economic situation
in Hungary has improved more significantly
00:08:06 than in the neighbouring countries.
But, please, to what do we owe this? To 1956.
00:08:20 Let's not be so grateful
00:08:25 to the past system upholders so as to think
00:08:31 they figured it out on their own.
00:08:38 In 1956, when János Kádár was taken to
Moscow with Ferenc Munnich,
00:08:45 Mátyás Rákosi was put there for him -
who did not say a word there in Moscow
00:08:53 but when the demands were made
they always showed him Rákosi.
00:09:00 Malenkov, Khrushchev and the others
knew how to handle it.
00:09:04 And when that happened and when
Kádár took on this role
00:09:10 it certainly wasn't an easy role
but he did have a routine.
00:09:18 Then please, they've always had 1956 in mind.
00:09:27 That's what they said in Moscow.
It was argued that they could not
00:09:33 carry out those claims.
The Hungarian government had a separate sobbing man
00:09:41 in the person of Antal Apró who said in Moscow
that we could not pay any more.
00:09:47 He claimed that otherwise
it would be '56 all over again.
00:09:52 And it went on this way and we assured ourselves
that military spending was smaller than elsewhere
00:09:58 because the army and the police,
together with the Minister of Interior Boross,
00:10:03 had never exceeded
the strength of the Soviet army present
00:10:12 and that it was the revolution and freedom
struggle of 1956 that taught the Russians,
00:10:18 taught the Soviet Union,
the Communists that Hungary
00:10:22 should be treated differently.
00:10:54 I'm a historian, and I don't
deny that I'm interested in
00:11:01 the judgment of posterity
and not just the opinion of contemporaries.
00:11:07 I trust that we will not go
into Hungarian history shamefully
00:11:13 but as the free government of the first
free-elected parliamentary assembly after a dictatorship,
00:11:20 which knew what should be done
and did what could be done.
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